Asperger's and religion. What do you say when God comes calling? No thanks, or yes please?
Back in the fall of 2008 I spoke at the MIT Brain Science Center in Boston. One of the people at that talk was Catherine Caldwell Harris, a psychology professor at BU. She asked an interesting question:
Why do you think Asperger people tend to be atheists?
First of all, I had no idea whether or not her premise was even true. Did Asperger people tend to be atheists? I turned the question back to her, and she told me about studies she'd done; exploring the religious views of a large number of people on the spectrum. Within the sample she had interviewed the majority tend tend to have what she saw as atheist views.
Since that time, I have conducted a sort of informal poll in the course of my travels, and I have to say my numbers look similar to hers. But I don't claim to understand the why of it. . .
After discussing that peculiar observation some more, we both wondered if the people's views were truly atheist, or really "anti-organized-church." The more I listened to Catherine, the more I felt it was the latter case. I thought Asperger people might shy away from organized churches because their threat and dogma ran against our logical grain.
But I recently saw another study postulating the same thing - that people on the autism spectrum are less religious than the general population - but for a totally different reason - a diminished theory of mind.
Here's a story from the Scientific American blogs that ponders the same question.
Read it and let me know what you think.
Are you on the spectrum and religious? Are you an atheist? Are you spiritual, but not part of a church? Or are you a solid churchgoing believer?
Comments
So Aspies tend to be Atheists... are there other characteristics involved? Has general intelligence been factored for, for example?
As a data point, I am fairly certain that I am Aspie (but unable to afford the testing to be sure). I am, by most definitions, Atheist. And yet I am religious: I am Discordian, a joke religion but no less serious for that. This comments page is not large enough to post the theory of Discordianism, but suffice it to say that it is a religion which does not allow the believer to blame anything on God(dess).
When I was a child, I saw other people talking about church and Christianity, and I made an effort to find out what they were talking about. I even went and read the Bible. But as much as I wanted to, I couldn't make myself believe in any of it: it is too self-contradictory, senseless, arbitrary and obviously contingent on historic circumstance. I can't make it make sense, and I can't suspend my disbelief enough that that doesn't matter.
Now I'm no less spiritual but I'm experimenting more with things like Deism, Unitarianism, gnosticism, and pantheism. I know because I'm a history major that many books were taken out of the Bible, and in my opinion Christianity went wrong at the Council of Nicaea. I am trying to use all the resources I can, even from different religions, to find out what I think the right path is. But I don't think Christianity works like Pat Robertson thinks it works. I don't think of it as logical because logic can't really be applied to something as illogical as religion, but I also understand that things don't always fit into neat and orderly categories and can't always be explained.
I've noticed all my friends, including my boyfriend, are atheists or agnostics. They're more reasonable and usually more intelligent than Christians (not that all Christians are stupid; this is obviously a generalization).
Why? Because of the mental effort of it all. I truly believe that the Biblical stories are simply that - stories - and they should be examined for their philosophical content, not their literal translation. In my opinion, they are akin to the nursery rhymes of the Brothers Grimm or the fables of Aesop; they have a moral behind them, and they're a fun read, but ultimately they are fables.
For me, the doctrine of the Church (I was brought up in a Catholic household) required a huge suspension of disbelief and mental effort to believe in. The God in the Bible acted irrationally: Old Testament God behaves more like a petulant, spoiled child, while the New Testament God has softer and more mature actions. Old Testament God was heavy-handed and excessive, while New Testament God was more subtle and Worked behind the scenes. Old Testament God is jealous and cruel, and New Testament God is gentle and loving. In the Christian faith, God sounds bipolar.
I am at a stage in my life where I find the belief in a monotheistic and omnipotent deity to be irrelevant in my daily life. I've bounced around through a lot of different faiths in my life because I was under the assumption that one had to believe in something, but now I see that's not the case. I don't know what's out there, and I don't dwell on it. I once saw a t-shirt design which said "Apathetic Agnostic - Don't Know, Don't Care". That's what I classify myself as for the moment.
When I have definitive and concrete evidence to the contrary, then my belief will change. Until that day comes, I will continue to go about my life unburdened by such worries.
I am an Asperger and while I might not be a regular churchgoer (beyond my medieval field studies), I operate within Orthodox Judaism so for the purposes of this argument I find myself on the religion side. From my experience, people on the spectrum are less involved with religion. Even in my case, as a very unconventional believer/intellectual terrorist, I am likely the sort of exception that proves the rule. I think you are right about the social issue. Organized religions are far more about society building than they are about belief. If someone does not care for social interaction than they are likely to go outside of organized religion. Ironically, I think one of the reasons why I stay within my organized religion is that I desire some form of social interaction and recognize that the structure of an organized religion gives me the means to socially interact in ways that, as an Asperger, I could never hope to do on my own.
I did not particularly care for the Scientific America blog post since I do not see Asperger syndrome as being a social impairment, but as a mode of thinking that focuses on the analytical as opposed to the social. I certainly reject the notion that Asperger syndrome has anything to do with a lack of a theory of mind. (http://izgad.blogspot.com/2010/03/neurotypical-mental-and-emotional.html) I fail to see what teleology has to do with a theory of mind. Furthermore, in this case, we seem to have an example where, if anything, the Asperger way of thinking is healthier and more rational. Why should anyone object to this as, at the very least, an equally valid mode of thinking unless they are a neurotypical bigot?
my son asks questions, trying to figure it out. I don't push a particular view of god or spiritual whatever or atheism, as i am a Unitarian Universalist, and we emphasize the individual's search for truth. I do tell him what i believe, but let him know it's ok if he thinks differently. he does seem to want to hear a clear answer from me.
However, I know other asperger families who do teach a particular religious belief to their children, who in turn believe what their parents say is their truth about god. In time, some go against that belief, as many nypticals do, too.
so i don't think asperger atheism is a given. i think the tendency toward logical thinking can set aspies in a definitive direction, but i also find logic and religion to be a strange bedfellows that can lead people down some very illogical sounding paths.
I hope it was clear in my own post that I wasn't bashing "Asperger's" thinking. If it wasn't, I'm sorry. I actually think it's a valid and interesting way to think. I'm a bit frustrated because I'm the black sheep with my friends (the non-Christian with hard-core Christians).
Thank you for clarifying your position. I am certainly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that, while some of your language was problematic, this was not done with intent. Part of the problem here is that many of us are trying to get out of the language of disability and into that of a minority group.
I am Aspergian, though not formally diagnosed. When my son was diagnosed, his doctors pointed out how alike we are. I never bothered with a formal diagnosis, but I recognize myself as being within the diagnosis.
My own background is one of social justice, a left-wing version of Catholicism and a belief in Liberation Theology,a refutation of violence and abuse,and a healthy self-reflexive criticism of the hierarchical aspects of my home RC religion. (You will not get any ra-ra-ra narrow defensiveness from me in relation to the failings of the organised catholic Church and its less than equitable structures!)
That being the case, I am extremely committed to aspects of Early Christian praxis and adore the approach of contemplatives and the work and teachings of Thomas Keating and The Contemplative Prayer Movement, which is so very similar to the meditation practices of the the EAST. Google Bede Griffith and Thomas Keating for an intro into this delightfully rich internal world! )
My personal view and experience is that my own jounrey as a late-diagnosed woman with Asperger's, has been augmented and strengthened by a healthy and rather pragmatic approach to faith and spirituality...an approach that is concerned with higher good, compassion for all things, the inalienable rights of all human beings, a consideration of "the different" and "the other" in our society and culture, and a clear understanding that meditation and spiritual management of my AS (NOT CURE!!!) has benefited me greatly and facilitated an extraordinarily rich and beautiful quality of life ON MY AUTISTIC TERMS...but with a learned appreciation and understanding of the terms of others! (chuckle chuckle.)
I speak and lecture at Autism conferences in my country on a semi-regular basis. Any assumption that there is a link between atheism and AS due to our tendency for black and white thinking is both absurd and ill thought out. In fact, one could purport the exact opposite as well...that black and white thinking makes us particularly agreeable to a template for living of the type and kind that is offered by orgnaised religion or even less organised but structured spiritual life. My own expereience - having met hundreds of AS people - is that we are a very diverse group unified by certain trait manifestations that are in accord with AS, but that other than that, we run the gamut and length and breadth of human diversity in terms of religion, socio-economic grouping, beliefs, values, taste, sexuality and gender etc etc.
These days I say "yes please" to the notion of a God as a universal force of knowing and unknowing that is at the heart and core of my rather monastic and thoroughly fulfilling style of being and living in the world. I paint, I write, I parent, I contirbute to my world in meaningful ways, and I live richly and simply and with a degree of grace and self-respect I never thought possible.
I like to commune with the wasps and the trees and see god buzzing around in the shape of bees.
from camilla connolly
http://thegameofbreathing.blogspot.com
Remember folks, Discordianisim isn't just an elaborate joke disguised as a religion. It's also a religion disguised as an elaborate joke.
I am not an atheist. Nor am I religious. I'm not even agnostic. Of all the religions I have known the closest one that fits me would probably be Buddhism, though I am not a Buddhist. I am very disillusioned with organized religion but I do not write it off completely. My family comes from an Italian background so I have some experience with Catholicism. My family believes and it makes them happy. Who am I to say anything.
Is there a God? I don't know. Is it important whether there is a God? Not to me. If there is then I am what/who I am because that is what I am meant to be. If not, then it's the same thing. I am who and what I am because I am who and what I am. Doesn't matter why I am me. It only matters that I be the best me I can be.
Side note: There is a concept that a deity can only exist of there are worshipers to believe in them. If no one believe in God, how can God exist? I have often thought about the idea that the belief creates the deity rather than the other way around. If this were so then there would be over 6 billion different Gods, all subtly different based on the concepts of each believer. But that's just an interesting intellectual idea.
Coda: If this comment doesn't seem to make sense, it's not you. I seem to be having a cognitive impairment day today.
I tried extremely hard to believe but I just couldn't make my peace with what I saw to be logical falsicies.
I had a long argument with one of the elders in the church at the tender age of 11 over the theory of evolution. The science was right, creationism wasn't.
These days I'm an active atheist. There is no good evidence out there that god exists. When such evidence exists, I'm willing to change my stance.
What a gift to have this child, to open our eyes to what we'd blindly been following all our lives.
She has freed us in so many ways, and she does believe in God. At ten it is a "Benevolent God in the sky" she describes. Different from what I believe(God to me is more a Universal life force), but that is okay.
We do attend a Unity church, where the message is, God loves you. Period. It isn't perfect, but it is a beautiful and loving community. No dogma.
Growing up, I was in evangelical churches that tended to have very little structure to them and that drove me crazy. As I got older, I came in contact with tradtions that were more structured with liturgy and that was a welcome feeling for me.
When it comes to things like miracles and the like, I tend to not see them as much as literal, but true nonetheless. I don't think the earth was formed the way it is spelled out in Genesis 1, but I do believe that God had a hand in the creation of the world (through evolution).
That's my take on religion.
Of the dozens of Aspies I know, many are atheists, but a few are also very conservative Christians. As noted, I fall into neither camp. Being very religious and Christian does not automatically make one conservative, nor does being Aspie automatically make one atheist.
I believe in the Bible - naturally, being a Christian - but I don't necessarily believe it in a strictly literal manner, especially portions which in context were written for purposes other than recording a historical narrative.
Apologies for leaving two comments, John.
I think the one thing being Aspie did for me was to give me the courage to walk the path I believe to be right and true, and to do so fearlessly.
I'm terrified of people, but not of Deities. Odd. Doesn't make any sense to me, either.
I mind what Professor Grandin wrote about how she lost the emotional part of her religion after stupidly taking a bath in organophosphate insecticide as a Public Relations stunt.
I am a Christian, by C.S. Lewis's definition, but often a bad one. I get no emotional charge out of it, at least not immediately after services. I do find that persisting in what I've made up my mind to do shows surprising benefits, sometime later.
It's all very mystical. I write as someone who started out to be a physicist.
Most people don't know that the vast majority of Anglicans in the world are non-white. Yes, my Arch-Bishop is a Nigger. As someone who is very proud of his Confederate ancestors, I find this very funny and evidence of the Deity's low sense of humor, which is evidence for His existence, if you ask me.
I believe that there is there are examples of very logical thinking people throughout the Bible. The most obvious one that comes to my mind is Nehemiah. Nehemiah serves as the only prophet in the Bible to decide his path without God speaking to him directly via burning bush, angels, etc. The story is also unique in the sense that it lacks any miracles. He concluded the need to rebuild the walls logically. He decided on a plan logically and asks God to bless the plan and provide opportunity.
I am not sure that this answers the question directly, but I think that it demonstrates how very logically thinking people can also believe that God is at work in their lives, organized religion or not.
i'm an aspie and i am spiritual, but never religious. religion is for those who need it. those who don't, either turn away from god, call god something else or embrace the god within. god is inside all of us, and we inside god. i think some aspies tend to forget that they have a head AND a heart, and should always use both. true logic, that which makes sense, is always about the heart first. don't you think it's logical to do good? i've always thought so, and noone can tell me otherwise. militant atheists just leave out the other side of logic all together, which is goodness and love are actual things, and the essence of god, and always the logical choice.
i avoid religion issues with my atheist aspie friends because we'll never agree because their logic is not my logic. as long as they respect mine, i respect their beliefs.
as for most being atheist, i dunno, many of my friends seem to be. but i know some aspies who are mystical, pagan and other "alternative" religions. i don't really know any hard core christians, i've always gotten along with atheists more than christians cuz atheists as well as spiritualists live by their own rules. and aspies tend to live by their own rules. i don't get along with sheep.
i'm an artsy type of aspie, which means i have a different brain than the geek types. i think there are two types of aspie, the artsy nerd type and the brainy geek type. both have their uses but i prefer to be artsy and think with my heart. :P
BUT to me spiritualism isn't about faith, it's an inner knowing and personal proof was needed for me. i told god that i wanted proof and it was provided. all i can say is, i have mine but it won't convince you. that's why Jesus is a "personal savior" cuz we all find god individually. and in our own time. and yes i believe in Jesus, and Buddha and all those teachers.
Lisa Rudy
www.autism.about.com
"No thanks."
I was raised in a generic Christian environment for a few years, none of which I ever understood, although that was probably attributable to my very young age more than anything. Some relatives eventually gave me a picture bible as a gift, which I attempted to understand, but approached it as a textbook - eventually it was abandoned, as I got little out of it and understood even less. Then around the age of 12, I discovered the word "atheist" and immediately knew that it applied to me. Just the notion of simply not believing hadn't occurred to me until then...and the thought was exhilerating and beautiful.
I myself am an Atheist, have been since kindergarten!
A more productive question might be to ask, "do Alexithymiacs and Aspies think of religion in a different way than other people?"
I am a mother of two sons ages 18 and 21, the elder was diagnosed at 17 with Asperger's. Knowing what I know now, I believe their father and myself to both be on the spectrum as well.
Their father is a strict, closed-minded Anglican-turned-Mennonite, we divorced over his rigid take on life. The boys now live with me full time, and tolerate their Dad well. I'd have to describe the tow of them as solid atheist and myself as a profoundly alone spiritualist.
It is organized religion we three object to, the judgmental, forced-eye contact methods of assimilation are Borg-like, and racist against our kind, in our "view".
Mike 289-795-0334
Of course, this has serious theological implications as well. If Aspies are created "less equal" in their ability to believe the things that religious followers are convinced are necessary for one's "salvation" or "after life", then what does this say about the morality, personality and characteristics of the god they usually claim to be perfect, all-powerful, just, loving and fair?
Falling back on the claim that their particular god is "mysterious" and "beyond human understanding" is a non-answer that then raises serious questions about the believer's ability to claim to know anything at all about their god.
I don't describe myself as an atheist; I have had spiritual experiences, but nontheless, I can relate to alot of the feelings of atheist Aspies. The sentimental feelings many neurotypicals have for their religious beliefs don't come easily to me; I tend to view spirituality as more about self-reflection, ritual, and so forth.
I used to be an evolutionist due to the fact that it was taught in Biology class (My favorite class when I was in high-school). However, after my own study into the matter, I found evolution (At least in my opinion) to be scientifically impossible. If you want to know why, do your own research!
Anyway, after I revoked evolution I didn't really believe in anything. Later in my life due to unrelated reasons I went into a deep depression and became suicidal. In a rage I yelled to the christian God (Because that was the one I most new about then) "If your really out there and 'love' me, prove it!" I then for some reason got my twenty sided dice and said to myself "If I roll a one I will not kill myself" (For those of you who are mathematically inadequit, or are just not intelligent that is one in twenty odds). I then proceeded to roll a one. Unconvinced I rolled again, and a one appeared again. I was now angry and rolled three more times, all of which I rolled a one. Due to the fact that is darn near impossible odds, i know am christian.
(Note: This is not a story to convert anyone, this is simply a story of how a suicidal aspie became christian after probability got it's symbolic ass kicked)
Check my blog www.anticsofanaspie.blogspot.com
But I believed in God - had to be a God. Not possible for all things to be so interconnected and developed without a God. Would talk with God for hours sometimes, but nothing ever came back. I can understand how people think He is not there.
Oh, He's there all right, but He refuses communication on our terms. You see, we love morality when it works for us, but despise it when it works against us. We love to judge others for willful transgressions, but utterly refuse to own up when it comes to our own.
Try owning up to your sin before God and see what kind of response you get with Him then. If you are really sincere about getting on with Him, you need to check in with His Son and get the lowdown on 1. Who He is, and 2. what it means for you.
First, Jesus is God in the flesh. He proved it. He lived a perfect, holy, and sinless life, then was taken up to heaven with 500 eyewitnesses. If He isn't God, then you need to come to terms with the reality that a bunch of LYING DISCIPLES pulled off the literary fraud of all time, in that they created FROM WHOLE CLOTH a fictitious man who never sinned or did anything wrong. (Want to try coming up with that one yourself?)
Fulfilled prophecy is another extremely valid way of discovering if Jesus is a made up character or was really the long-prophecied Jewish Messiah. There are over 350 of them, and it is impossible that they do not center on Jesus of Nazareth.
But I would not have cared anything for these facts were it not for number 2.
Jesus is my Savior. He died on the cross - not just FOR me, but AS me before God. In that I have repented of my sinfulness before God, and have received His Son, Jesus as my SOLE provision for my sin, I now have His Blood covering all my sins, and I am free from its curse.
THAT'S why I am a Christian and believe the Bible as I do. Not because I did some religious survey and decided Christianity was the best, but because JESUS SAVED ME FROM MY SINS.
So, Asperger people may be more atheistic than most, but they are decidedly not any more sinful. And if THEY will turn to the God they know is there and repent of THEIR sins, they can receive Jesus as well, and know the gift of forgiveness and the promise of eternal life in heaven with Him, (Who owns the place, you know.)
I am 50 years old, and though I was recently diagnosed, my Asperger personality has been around a lot longer than that. Even so, there's nothing more or less resistant about God in an Asperger than in anyone else. I think, being such black and white thinkers, that in all honesty, they cannot abide with something not accepted all the way. Therefore, if they cannot have God in toto, they confess they do not have Him at all.
I was in the same virtual boat, and yet today, I am saved from my sins by Jesus. Get Him right and everything else will fall into place.
As I grew older, I opted out of organized religion whenever I could, I have been holding militant atheist, agnostic, apathetic or roughly deists views over the years. I am not averse to Christianity but cannot articulate the way I would fit into that religion, just as I cannot fit into most social settings. Since I have a hard time relating to people I see, how much more to God, whom I know only by hearsay.
I was a pentecostal when I was a kid and a teen , after an incedent I started to read the bible and I saw that what they said wasent on it so , I began to search for the real one. I toght there wasent a real one and I was very pro non organised spiritual stuff becouse I toght it was more authentic, when someone ha a sisthem it tends to get corrupted, but then I read the gret conflit and I saw that it was the will of God to have a organized one.
Later I discurved the true one and I became a seventh day adventist, but I found out that I strugle a lot to understand the emotional part of the Bible.... so maybe thats a reason why